1 Corinthians 12:1-11

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed. You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led. Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit. Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.  All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

ESV from: ebible.com

Test for [[Echo]] Thoughts from 1 Corinthians

Does anybody come here anymore? Is this thing on??

Here are some thoughts on what we talked about Sunday in SS about 1 Corinthians and some stuff that maybe we can explore in future SS classes or maybe on this board. Tell me if I am way off here. . .I am really curious about what others think.

1.] The typical evangelical view of “separation” in light of 1Cor. 5:9-13

2.] The “weaker brother stumbling” business of chapter 8.

Regarding “separation”

It is fascinating to me to see that in most evangelical circles the clear teaching of 1Cor. 5:9-13 has not been ignored but COMPLETELY inverted. We are scared of/revolted by/attempt to be isolated from the world, [which Paul points out as really ridiculous] while sin goes relatively unchecked among believers. Oh, our sin is obvious to unbelievers but not to us. Beyond how this inversion really undercuts our ability as the church from being a redemptive agent in the world, as if that wasn’t enough to ponder, one is also left with the difficult task of how to rightly apply:

But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

This would seem to cut into the attendance of pot-luck suppers. Seriously, how do we live this out? This passage freaks me out. In a typical week I am probably all of those things. . . often in the same day. . .and I am really nervous about making any judgment about whether another believer is being greedy or idolatrous. Bottom line I guess, at least on some level and in some way, we are called on to take sin in the body of Christ very seriously, and conversely, perhaps not to bother boycotting Disney. Whatever Paul is talking about, it is seems a long long way from “church discipline” as practiced today in many churches. How do we live out this passage in our friendships and relationships?

Regarding the “weaker brother”

Commentator Gordan Fee kinda confesses in his commentary on 1 Corinthians that he is at a loss to come up with a modern analogy to meat sacrificed to idols in 1st century Corinth. I think it’s a good point. I have heard the “offended brother” clause invoked in sooo many different ways, mainly in ways that allow one pious person to hold hostage a larger group of Christians on the basis of what is ultimately one of their own personal preferences. “Well, if we do such and such in Sunday School so and so might be offended.” Not only is that not what I think Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 8, but if it were, that would make these “offended brothers” -at least according to Paul- spiritually “weak.” Ouch.

I think we can deduce from chapter 8 that Paul is talking about knowingly causing another believer [who is perhaps a recent convert] to sin against their conscience. Note: not unknowingly, and not violating a “thus saith the Lord.” I think back to my dear old mother’s reasons not go to the movies. “What if someone sees you going into the multiplex and they don’t know you’re going to see Bambi and they use you as a reason to go see some awful movie.” [Yes, I'm still slightly bitter.] In this example, I would say I am “unknowingly” having this affect on another believer and that believer cannot use me as an excuse to violate Phillipians 4:8. This, I would argue, is far from what Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians, and yes, my mother’s logic also applied to video stores.

It is difficult to imagine a modern scenario that duplicates this situation in Corinth. Perhaps alcohol is the closest example: if one knowingly served alcohol at a dinner with a new convert that had battled alcoholism. I really don’t know. . . Any thoughts on what in our day is analogous to meat offered to idols. Whatever Paul is talking about in 8, it seems to be a relatively narrow and specific circumstance, not the broad sense in which it gets invoked today. It is the weaker brother sinning, not the offended brother being angry.

I think these are pretty important passages/concepts to wrestle with that directly affect how we are the chuch.

What thoughts have ye??

Another Related Article

Saw this just this morning. Coincides nicely with our topic last Sunday.

No Ordinary Death

This is what I think of when I think of our Saviour’s final words. The fulfilled promise accomplished through the second Adam. In scripture, I think there is only one other instance where a human being knew what this may have felt like. That is at the fall. These are the only two cases where somebody had a perfect relationship with the Father and then felt the loss of this relationship and the absence of his presence. Anyone else have thoughts on this?

After the fact, but interesting.

Wow, no one has posted in over a month. So… I’ll just put this up here and see who is still checking this page. While in the normal course of my web browsing, I saw this article on a site that I frequent. I know that in class we have already passed our discussion on end times views, but I still thought this might be good for thought.

Thy Kingdom Come

I think that at the end of discussions like the ones in class, it is often easy to think what we believe in an eschatological sense doesn’t really affect our views or daily actions. While I agree that this is not a major issue we should divide over, it does carry into some of our other theology. Be warned, the guy who wrote this is not a neutral observer. Of course, I don’t think any of us really are either.

Hayden Forte

Hayden Forte was born around 2:00pm She weighs 7lbs. 8oz. Sandi is doing fine. She was eating a cheese burger and Tim was stealing her fries.

In preparation for Missions Conference

I thought it might be useful to look at a book almost a century old. Roland Allen was a missionary in China for just a few years before illness forced him back to England. His experiences changed his thinking about missions, and his thoughts are still valuable today. I’m just going to post a few passages every couple of days. I’m pulling quotes from Missionary Methods: St. Pauls or Ours?. You can read it online or borrow my copy if you’d like to read it.

…people have adopted fragments of St. Paul’s method and have tried to incorporate them into alien systems, and the failure which resulted has been used as an argument against the Apostle’s method. For instance, people have baptized uninstructed converts and the converts have fallen away; but St. Paul did not baptize uninstructed converts apart from a system of mutual responsibility which ensured their instruction. Again, they have gathered congregations and have left them to fend for themselves, with the result that the congregations have fallen back into heathenism. But St. Paul did not gather congregations, he planted churches, and he did not leave a church until it was fully equipped with orders of ministry, sacraments and tradition. Or again, they have trusted native helpers with the management of mission funds, and these helpers have grievously misused them; But St. Paul did not gather congregations, he planted churches, and he did not leave a church until it was fully equipped with orders of ministry, sacraments and tradition. Or again, they have trusted native helpers with the management of mission funds, and these helpers have grievously misused them; but St. Paul did not do this. He had no funds with which to entrust anyone. These people have committed funds in trust to individual native helpers and have been deceived; but St. Paul left the church to manage its own finance. These people have made the helpers responsible to them for honest management; but St. Paul never made any church render an account of its finances to him. Or again, Europeans have ordained ill-educated native helpers and have repented of it. But they have first broken the bonds which should have united those whom they ordained to those to whom they were to minister, and then have expected them to be ministers of a foreign system of church organization with which neither the ministers nor their congregations were familiar. St. Paul did not do this. He ordained ministers of the Church for the Church, and he instituted no elaborate constitution. When these false and partial attempts at imitating the Apostle’s method have failed, men have declared that the apostolic method was at fault and was quite unsuited to the condition and circumstances of present-day missions. The truth is that they have neither understood nor practised the Apostle’s method at all.

Happy Reformation Day!

On October 31, 1517 a German monk nailed his ‘95 theses‘ to the door of the castle church at Wittenberg. The timing of this event was critical. Nov 1 is All Saints Day, when the church would put out relics (locks of hair from martyrs, a piece of the cross, a bud from Moses bush and others). By paying to see the relics one could shorten the time their soul spend in purgatory. Luther had a problem with that practice (among others). So rent the movie, dress in a robe and comb your hair out straight if your looking for a last minute costume. Although we would not be able to take the Lord’s supper with him, leave our kids with him, he might try to baptize them, or discuss the Middle East (WARNING!!ANTI-SEMITIC) he is still an intriguing historical figure. Roland Bainton’s book: Here I Stand is one of the best biographies of Luther around.

Three Questions

I just read Three Questions to the girls. I had seen it at Barnes and Noble and Angie found it at the library. No, not these three questions. It’s a retelling of a short story by Leo Tolstoy.

Muth takes Tolstoy’s original three questions:

1. What is the best time to do each thing?
2. Who are the most important people to work with?
3. What is the most important thing to do at all times?

and changes them to:

1. When is the best time to do things?
2. Who is the most important one?
3. What is the right thing to do?

What was interesting was as I was asking the questions the girls started answering them: <dry tone of voice>Prayer…God…Jesus</dry tone of voice>. It took a few reads of the questions to suppress their answers. As a friend of mine said: “We forget the questions.” If you must know “the answers” read the short story (link).

Gandhi Knew Margin

“There is more to life than increasing its speed.”

- Mahatma Gandhi

I know it’s not Mark…or Andy Stanley…

I just saw an article by a friend of mine that reminded me of Philippians 3:17-4:1:

Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame— who set their mind on earthly things. For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself. Therefore, my beloved and longed-for brethren, my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, beloved.

Paul uses the word “pattern”. In many church growth movements you hear about models. It makes me think of model air planes as a kid or cake pans. You don’t have much flexibility (unless you force parts to fit…not that I did that…) with models. You can add decorative elements, but structurally it’s the same. A pattern is different. Church is a way of living, a pattern. This is playing out as people are not coming (or leaving) institutional church. Here are some individuals thoughts on what church is and what it’s not: The Exodus Papers.