Speaking of gifts…

A few of us discussed the Holy Spirit and gifts in the halls last Sunday, Mac and Angie have posted some good comments. A friend of mine has a post about about why you believe what you believe about the Holy Spirit. Specifically, does the Holy Spirit still provide gifts of healing, miraculous powers…, check it out.

[cough]…hello, anyone out there?

I’m dusting off this old blog in hopes that we can spur on discussions in our class. We’ve had great conversations in our class in the past and my hope is that by posting the scripture (whenever possible) for our next Sunday meeting we’ll be more prepared to work through the text. As a help you can download E-Sword. It’s a free, high quality study aid. You can grab several translations (CEV, ESV, GNT, ISV, KJV…) and read them in parallel. From the author:

The fact that e-Sword is free is just one of the blessings and does not speak of the quality of the software. I make my living writing software and I believe I have put forth my best effort in this endeavor. The real work, however, was put in by the godly men and women who devoted countless years creating the texts that have been made available for our benefit.

While it is free, he does accept donations. You can download it here.

1 Corinthians 12:1-11

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed. You know that when you were pagans you were led astray to mute idols, however you were led. Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says “Jesus is accursed!” and no one can say “Jesus is Lord” except in the Holy Spirit. Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.  All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

ESV from: ebible.com

Test for [[Echo]] Thoughts from 1 Corinthians

Does anybody come here anymore? Is this thing on??

Here are some thoughts on what we talked about Sunday in SS about 1 Corinthians and some stuff that maybe we can explore in future SS classes or maybe on this board. Tell me if I am way off here. . .I am really curious about what others think.

1.] The typical evangelical view of “separation” in light of 1Cor. 5:9-13

2.] The “weaker brother stumbling” business of chapter 8.

Regarding “separation”

It is fascinating to me to see that in most evangelical circles the clear teaching of 1Cor. 5:9-13 has not been ignored but COMPLETELY inverted. We are scared of/revolted by/attempt to be isolated from the world, [which Paul points out as really ridiculous] while sin goes relatively unchecked among believers. Oh, our sin is obvious to unbelievers but not to us. Beyond how this inversion really undercuts our ability as the church from being a redemptive agent in the world, as if that wasn’t enough to ponder, one is also left with the difficult task of how to rightly apply:

But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

This would seem to cut into the attendance of pot-luck suppers. Seriously, how do we live this out? This passage freaks me out. In a typical week I am probably all of those things. . . often in the same day. . .and I am really nervous about making any judgment about whether another believer is being greedy or idolatrous. Bottom line I guess, at least on some level and in some way, we are called on to take sin in the body of Christ very seriously, and conversely, perhaps not to bother boycotting Disney. Whatever Paul is talking about, it is seems a long long way from “church discipline” as practiced today in many churches. How do we live out this passage in our friendships and relationships?

Regarding the “weaker brother”

Commentator Gordan Fee kinda confesses in his commentary on 1 Corinthians that he is at a loss to come up with a modern analogy to meat sacrificed to idols in 1st century Corinth. I think it’s a good point. I have heard the “offended brother” clause invoked in sooo many different ways, mainly in ways that allow one pious person to hold hostage a larger group of Christians on the basis of what is ultimately one of their own personal preferences. “Well, if we do such and such in Sunday School so and so might be offended.” Not only is that not what I think Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 8, but if it were, that would make these “offended brothers” -at least according to Paul- spiritually “weak.” Ouch.

I think we can deduce from chapter 8 that Paul is talking about knowingly causing another believer [who is perhaps a recent convert] to sin against their conscience. Note: not unknowingly, and not violating a “thus saith the Lord.” I think back to my dear old mother’s reasons not go to the movies. “What if someone sees you going into the multiplex and they don’t know you’re going to see Bambi and they use you as a reason to go see some awful movie.” [Yes, I’m still slightly bitter.] In this example, I would say I am “unknowingly” having this affect on another believer and that believer cannot use me as an excuse to violate Phillipians 4:8. This, I would argue, is far from what Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians, and yes, my mother’s logic also applied to video stores.

It is difficult to imagine a modern scenario that duplicates this situation in Corinth. Perhaps alcohol is the closest example: if one knowingly served alcohol at a dinner with a new convert that had battled alcoholism. I really don’t know. . . Any thoughts on what in our day is analogous to meat offered to idols. Whatever Paul is talking about in 8, it seems to be a relatively narrow and specific circumstance, not the broad sense in which it gets invoked today. It is the weaker brother sinning, not the offended brother being angry.

I think these are pretty important passages/concepts to wrestle with that directly affect how we are the chuch.

What thoughts have ye??